Second Learning in later life/ Grundtvig project meeting
Lenka Prikrylova (Czech republic)
Petra Pavlasova (Czech republic)
Carmen Rodriguez (Spain)
Marja Toivanen (Finland)
Matti Tossavainen (Finland)
Aarne Toivanen (Finland)
Monique Epstein (France)
Françoise Pettelat (France)
Lidia Maria Jedlinska (Poland)
Renata Augustyn (
Speech of Dieter Batrla who is the Head of Selb Volks HochSchule:
The black colour of the picasa albums should be changed (Monique task)
SUGGESTION: The facilities offered by Google, online documents sharing and Google discussion groups will be used.
TASK: A google account will be created
OUTPUT: for improved project communication will be used
- the google documents facility
- the google groups
Tasks 2 and
4 are the subjects which will be finalized
We need time to test the new methods
For June 2008 we need one template
Then practice from October to December 08
And finalize in January 2009
Templaty budou plněny a zkoušeny až do ledna 2009.
Questions for tasks 2 and 4
Questions for :
- task 2 = introduction of different teaching methods
- task4 : new teaching methods : conceiving and testing
Task 4 theoretical part - Theoretical questions
After these modifications, they will be sent to all partners or/and put on the Google DOCS and
WHO (Michaela, Monique)
DEADLINE: All partners must answer the questions before the end of May 2008
The answers will be published on the website
OUTPUT: practical recommendations, as one of the outputs of our project.
Task 2 practical part - Lesson plan template
SUGGESTIONS: Templates will be filled out in the period January 2008-January 2009 as it takes time to test it in partners organizations.
It is advisable to add the ages of the participants in the “notes “ part and add learners motivation.
Partners can make several lesson templates for different levels of courses.
These templates will be put on the website so that people can download/use freely (this must be written clearly) them with a mention that people (from outside the project )can send us their own template to publicize on the website.
Also must be mentioned the possibility to go and discuss more about the subject by joining the Google Group.
On a voluntary basis, partners will use real course supports. AT SEVILLA MEETING WILL BE SHOWN ONE LESSON BY EACH PARTNER
OUTUP: Filled lesson templates to use in lessons
WHO: Lenka (creation of template), all partners (testing)
DEADLINE: June 31st (filling the templates)
January 20th (testing it)
A - Proposals for SOG
Questions of the sets 4, 5 and 6 are supposed to be filled in with the help of Internet
B - Remarks and suggested improvements
Set no1 - Hardware OK
Suggestions : add question : how do I know that the printer works?
Sets 2 and 3 :
Questions should be more like a practical exercise and more precise (see Spanish document)
Set no 4 : use of Internet is OK but must be more concrete and therefore adapted to each country
Set no5 is OK
Important for sets 4 ,5 ,6 : as to force students to use the internet , they must give the link of the website where they found the answers of the questions
C - Organization
NOTE : We need a template as an output for the report and to help organize the SOG
Until latest end of march 2008 :
The people who suggested a set no 7 for a mixture of all together (as look for info, download, send to teacher, copy, etc...) should send their contribution to Theresa
In April : exchange of comments by email or google documents or google group for little improvements
In each country set no 4 is adapted to local needs
End of april 2008 : SOG questions are ready
May 2008 (or latest beginning of June before
To take part in lottery (WINNERS WILL BE IN Krakow) one has to fill out and answer all questions.
The n umber of participants depends on each institution
The SOG can be done on different days in different groups
Or altogether on one day with press (journalists) invited – if possible
One person in each country will be designed as being the “winner”, even if it is only by “lottery”, because people do not like real “competition”
winners can have a free visit of an English course and will travel to
October 2008 : we decide if we do another (second ) part of SOG in 2009
This subject was not talked about
The basic subject is to talk about communication/relationship between juniors et seniors.
In the afternoon, a meeting was organized in the place used for “Anschluss Café” with the seniors who usually attend the activity.
activity begun on
Activities are offered twice a week
See programs on Google docs /website
Open discussion with all the present seniors.
The first aim seems to be the fact of meeting other people, but an important part of the seniors are also interested by computers and some even come with their laptops if they need to solve a technical question.
A local journalist made pictures and wrote an article “Selber Tagblatt” newspaper : see “media and project” webpage
Café Anschluss is a great idea because people are in touch with computers and with other people
Speech by the Maire Wolfgang Kreil from Selb town municipality :
-Young people leave the town
-In the next years , there will be more and more seniors
- They have a project to rebuild houses in a way that they be easy to enter for old people = no steps
The four present Czech juniors are teachers and teach ICT .
They are teaching seniors both at home and at school
Some seniors have computers at home
For the seniors who don’t have a computer at home, the students come with their own laptop (each student of the school –which is a private school – has his personal computer)
Once a week in general for one senior.
Most seniors have already worked on computers
The organisation of these courses is composed of :
- 8 young teachers
- 3 team managers
- 1 webmaster who takes care of the site : www.eseniors.educanet.cz
The young teachers have meetings with the team managers to decide what subjects they have to teach and about the teaching planning.
Seniors do not pay : courses are free.
The students created leaflets and distributed them and put them in senior clubs
Advantages for young people :
The interest for the young teachers is to see how they feel as being themselves teachers and evaluate it as a future profession.
They learn a lot about life from old people as they talk they talk also about life experience
If the experience successful, in future they would be possibility to give credits to students
The pace is slower when teaching seniors
The most difficult is to be patient
Seniors are very kind to young teachers
Seniors are happy to joint the project
They like individual courses
Juniors get closer to seniors
logo proposals were given by young Czech and one logo by
The criteria for the choice was to have a picture which is stylised ( simple to understand ), not overloaded because it might used with different reduction percentages .
Final decision :
We will have 2 logos : one for the project (german proposition) and one for the SOG (czech proposition)
The project logo (german) must be modified as
- to have some yellow stars ( in yellow)
- change the brown colour to yellow
- the name “eseniors” in dark blue
The other logo is more used for SOG and cybercafé (when they will exist!)
This is the dedicated subject of the Selb meeting .
And the different contributions from all the partners will be concatenated into one of the projects OUTPUT RECOMMENDATIONS document.
The subject must be divided in hardware and software access problems with in-between, the problem of Internet access.
1 – Hardware access
The cost of hardware has decreased.
Most of our middle and upper class seniors can afford to buy a computer (generally laptop).
In many cases, their children buy computers as Christmas presents (for example), which, by the way, pushes the parents to begin and learn ICT.
But, as an non-profit organization, we have the possibility to get – nearly for free - second hand recycled computers.
We are in contact with intermediate structures who get the computers from big structures like banks, government or town structures, electricity company , etc when they decide to change part of their computer parks.
And we give for free and install these computers either for private people who do not have the financial possibility to buy their own computer or in public activity centres where we give our courses, when they have no or not enough computers or , also, for welfare organisations.
One must also speak of some new commercial projects of low cost computers like the ASUS company is going to offer in the next month for 100 euros. But these computers have a very small screen and have very little evolution possibilities.
Some other aspects should be mentioned, when speaking about hardware :
- some people acquire MACINTOSH computers (mostly on recommendation of their family using these computers when working in graphics businesses):; these computers are very beautiful, easier to use then normal PC’s (once you have been a little bit initiated), have no Viruses problems BUT they are more expensive and it is difficult to find teaching courses as the demand is very little.
- A company called ORDISSIMO proposes a simplified computer (based on LINUX – also no viruses!) for seniors where you have only prefabricated buttons (one for mail, one to surf, one to write a letter…).
To me, it is a little bit like a Fisher Price Toy computer for babies, BUT it can be useful for Alzheimer sick people as simplifying the access and avoiding problems.
2 – Internet access
This is, in some way, a real problem.
And this is the same for all providers (as well ADSL providers like Free, Wanadoo, NeufTelecom, Alice then Cable access providers like NOOS/ Numericable).
Some people cannot afford their cost when they have very little pensions.
So one solution is to go to cyber cafés ( 1 or 2 euros per hour), some MacDonald’s cafes or , for free, in some public libraries.
opening comes from the fact that the town of
But one thing to be done would be to talk to some big Internet access providing company and convince them to make a discount to seniors who have no financial means.
3 – Software and learning to use ICT courses
Software problems can be used by using old versions of Microsoft software (Windows 98 is completely free, or Windows 2000,…)
And , for instance, for text processing using Open Office instead of WinWord… as it has exactly the same features (only sometimes a little bit more complicated to use as for orthography corrector or foreign languages).
As for learning how to use these tools, which is one important aspect of the access to modern technologies, there are 2 possibilities :
- private lessons :
we provide this service in the frame of a governmental politics which is called “Personal services” – especially for old people staying in their homes. The help of the state comes in the form of an income tax reduction of 50% of the price paid for private lessons (for instance , if a senior pays 45 euros to our organisation, he will get back 22.50 euros in paying less taxes or, even, if he pays no taxes he will get the money. – this up to 1000 euros per year. Of course this price is still very high for a lot of people. So , for people with difficult situations , we provide free service at home with the help of volunteer persons.
- group lessons :
we provide lessons in public cultural or social
centres in different places in
4 – Conclusion
It is an “every days” work , for our association, to find financial help from government, region, town and local authorities, private sponsors because the income we get from group courses does not cover the real cost of the teacher’s salary, even if we have the help of volunteers – because the cost of having one teacher fro only 4 students is very high.
Our second “job” would be to find volunteers.
access is given by Regional Public Library in
The Business and European Information Centre (part of the Library) which provide help for Seniors to access the database of the library and to get general information about regulations useful for every day’s life .
Must also be mentioned the German-Polish association, who have their own computers and cooperate with the library.
See PowerPoint presentations of
Access to hardware :
- 12 computers in computer reading room
- 5 computers in Regional reading room
Trainings (with low cost participation) have been organized for readers of the library to learn how to use their free access to computers and access the library’s catalogue and lending facility database, with personal username access.
Most teachers are young : 25 years old
The cost of buying hardware , even for organisations, is still a problem.
National governement : part compulsary
Half cummunity can decide to use th emoney they get from governement for what they want
is omnipresent in
The local government sent 15 computers
Internet connection costs 40 euros per month but , if you add telephone, it is a total of 70 euros without TV
Schools and public libraries are very well equipped in hardware and software, but many senior citizens are not familiar with the use of them. In the libraries internet can be used without cost. At home internet connection is cheap: 10 - > euros/month
Similarly there are more cellular telephones than inhabitants, but older generation cannot use them or uses only very elementary functions. The trend by the authorities is to persuade people to use cellular telephones as repairing phone lines is expensive in a densely populated country.
bit rate (2 megabyte..etc) is not the fastest in
But you can find up to 24 megabyte/sec.
Access to hardware, software and internet
Foibe has 16 computers which were bought second hand. They are equipped with basic Microsoft software (Word, Excel, Power Point). All of them have internet connection. They are placed in the library and can easily be used by as well those living in Foibe as visitors to the day center.
As Foibe is an independent foundation it cannot get state or municipality subsidies. To keep the fees low is only possible with voluntary teaching staff.
The day center is not situated in any of the city centers which influences the number of participants. Most of the residents of the center are old and have health problems which hinders them to participate.
Many retired people either have low income or are not used to pay for participation. This means that only a nominal fee can be collected.
New ways to inform seniors of the course pool must be found as we cannot afford advertising in newspapers. Brochures in libraries are used, but reaching many more seniors is a demanding task.
We have two volunteers and students from near-by technical university for nursing have helped in various ways. New volunteers would be useful.
Basic courses in ICT are a regular part of supply.
Two courses in using cellular phones were given last December.
31.1. Course in digital banking
7.2. Use our cellular phone (elementary course)
14.2. Do not be afraid of computer. Course for those who have never used it.
27.3. Use your cellular phone (for those who can use basic functions)
10.4. English with computer
In addition we have plans to open a net coffee like Café Anschluss.
Students from polytechnics have open a Wellness-TV which can be an embryo for interactive home TVs
Foibe has internal TV, which gives the residents a possibility to get internal information.
Answers to the 7 questions
The vhs Selb offers different courses particularly with regard to elder people since 1999. The subjects are new technologies, health care also as given talks on different themes.
3 computer reading rooms:
Every room with printer, scanner, beamer
1 Internet-Café with 3 computers, Widows 2000, Office 2000, Internet, printer, scanner
Computer reading rooms can be used during courses. Internet – Café is free to use during the opening time and also if there is an agreement of a date.
Access to internet is free all the time, but no WIFI (the walls in our old house are too thick)
There is no such activity
carried out actually.
The participants of “Café Anschluss” aids one another. We plan to qualify young people/students of high school, to teach elder people and to give home computer assistance
Inhabitants absolute: 16.700 100,0 %
age 65+ 4.390 26,3 %
less than 18: 2.520 15,1 %
The population of Selb grows old. Every year the part of 65+ aged people is more. A lot of elderly people live alone, reasonable because the younger people (sons and daughters) couldn’t find a job here and must leave the region. Without using new technologies there is no possibility to get in contact with the family.
The problem in making seniors interested in using the internet.
They are afraid of getting Viruses on their computers
There is no financial problem to acquire hardware.
Seniors are afraid of security problems (for instance in e-banking or buing on the Internet)
so they prefer using computers at school
One of the courses is using internet to buy from ebay.
Also the adsl connection does not exist in all places in the area.
The cost of adsl is 100 euros/month
German seniors don’t use mobile phones because numbers are to little to see
and they cannot remember or see the long telephone numbers
and they do not know how to save numbers
Offered courses are :
- course is for beginners (coming)
they will step by step explain word by word
5 afternoons once a week
Price : 30 euros (6 euros per afternoon)
At the end , people will be able to go to normal course for computers
- special courses for digital camera, photo
- training in skype (in future)
Senior courses are in the afternoon, as they do not want to go out in the dark, and slowlier than normal courses
At the moment there are no young teachers
will try and to offer didactic course
how to train old people with outside help (
There are no home courses and no e-learning
In general people not only to learn about ICT but also to meet and see other people
Each partner has to prepare a presentation about every interesting activity in his institution : ICT or other activities
( for instance foreign language training) with the aim to exchange experiences
This part was discussed on Friday.
This information is contained in the description of the tasks in the first part of the document.
Market of courses for seniors is growing
There will be a link between Czech and German partners to broaden the offer of courses for broader education
Lenka wants to make more courses for seniors
The French partner would also like to set up something similar.
The idea was given to publicise about courses by putting flyers at doctors and in churches