Second Learning in later life/
Grundtvig project meeting
Selb (
16 –
First meeting day : Thursday
17/01/08
2 – Online facilities on Google
Actual state of project tasks
and future deadlines
SOG : Senior Olympic Games (task 5)
Task number 6 : intergenerational
communication
Second meeting day : Friday 18/01/08
Access to modern technologies (task
1)
What
do we prepare for task no 3 (next meeting in Finland) ?
Conclusions and new ideas - after the meeting in Germany
Participants
:
Lenka Prikrylova
(Czech republic)
Petra Pavlasova (Czech republic)
Michaela
Hermannsdoerfer (
Therese
Rodriguez (
Carmen Rodriguez (Spain)
Marja Toivanen (Finland)
Matti Tossavainen (Finland)
Aarne Toivanen (Finland)
Monique Epstein (France)
Françoise Pettelat (France)
Lidia Maria Jedlinska (Poland)
Renata Augustyn (
Introduction
Speech
of Dieter Batrla who is the Head of Selb Volks HochSchule:
The black
colour of the picasa albums should be changed (Monique task)
SUGGESTION:
The facilities offered by Google, online documents sharing and Google
discussion groups will be used.
TASK: A google
account will be created
WHO:
Monique
OUTPUT: for
improved project communication will be used
-
the google documents facility
-
the google groups
DEADLINE:
31.January
Tasks 2 and
4 are the subjects which will be finalized
in
We need
time to test the new methods
For June
2008 we need one template
Then
practice from October to December 08
And
finalize in January 2009
Templaty budou plněny a zkoušeny až do ledna 2009.
Questions
for tasks 2 and 4
Questions
for :
-
task 2 = introduction of different teaching methods
-
task4 : new teaching methods : conceiving and testing
have been
prepared by
Task 4 theoretical part - Theoretical questions
SUGGESTION:
Michaela (
After these
modifications, they will be sent to all partners or/and put on the Google DOCS
and
WHO
(Michaela, Monique)
DEADLINE: All
partners must answer the questions before the end of May 2008
The answers
will be published on the website
OUTPUT: practical
recommendations, as one of the outputs
of our project.
Task 2
practical part - Lesson plan template
SUGGESTIONS:
Templates will be filled out in the period January 2008-January 2009 as it
takes time to test it in partners organizations.
It is
advisable to add the ages of the participants in the “notes “ part and add
learners motivation.
Partners
can make several lesson templates for different levels of courses.
These
templates will be put on the website so that people can download/use freely
(this must be written clearly) them
with a mention that people (from outside the project )can send us their
own template to publicize on the website.
Also must
be mentioned the possibility to go and discuss more about the subject by joining the Google Group.
On a
voluntary basis, partners will use real course supports. AT SEVILLA
MEETING WILL BE SHOWN ONE LESSON BY EACH PARTNER
OUTUP:
Filled lesson templates to use in lessons
WHO: Lenka
(creation of template), all partners (testing)
DEADLINE:
June 31st (filling the templates)
January 20th (testing it)
A -
Proposals for SOG
Questions
of the sets 4, 5 and 6 are supposed to
be filled in with the help of Internet
B -
Remarks and suggested improvements
Set no1 -
Hardware OK
Suggestions
: add question : how do I know that the printer works?
Sets 2 and
3 :
Questions
should be more like a practical exercise and more precise (see Spanish document)
Set no 4 :
use of Internet is OK but must be more concrete and therefore adapted to each
country
Set
no5 is OK
Important
for sets 4 ,5 ,6 : as to force students to use the internet , they must give
the link of the website where they found the answers of the questions
C -
Organization
NOTE : We need a template as an output
for the report and to help organize the
SOG
Until
latest end of march 2008 :
The people
who suggested a set no 7 for a mixture of all together (as look for info,
download, send to teacher, copy, etc...) should send their contribution to
Theresa
In
April : exchange of comments by email or google
documents or google group for little improvements
In each
country set no 4 is adapted to local needs
End of
april 2008 : SOG questions are ready
May 2008 (or latest beginning of June before
meeting in
To take
part in lottery (WINNERS WILL BE IN Krakow) one has to fill out and answer all
questions.
The n umber
of participants depends on each institution
The SOG can
be done on different days in different groups
Or
altogether on one day with press (journalists) invited – if possible
One person
in each country will be designed as being the “winner”, even if it is only by
“lottery”, because people do not like real “competition”
The 6
winners can have a free visit of an English course and will travel to
In
October
2008 : we
decide if we do another (second ) part
of SOG in 2009
This
subject was not talked about
But
The basic
subject is to talk about communication/relationship between juniors et seniors.
In the
afternoon, a meeting was organized in the place used for “Anschluss Café” with
the seniors who usually attend the activity.
The
activity begun on
Activities
are offered twice a week
See programs
on Google docs /website
Open
discussion with all the present seniors.
The first
aim seems to be the fact of meeting other people, but an important part of the
seniors are also interested by computers and some even come with their laptops
if they need to solve a technical question.
A local
journalist made pictures and wrote an article “Selber Tagblatt” newspaper : see
“media and project” webpage
Conclusion
Café
Anschluss is a
great idea because people are in touch with computers and with other people
Introduction
Speech by
the Maire Wolfgang Kreil from Selb town municipality :
-Young
people leave the town
-In the
next years , there will be more and more seniors
- They have
a project to rebuild houses in a way that they be easy to enter for old people
= no steps
The four
present Czech juniors are teachers and teach ICT .
Organisation:
They are
teaching seniors both at home and at
school
Some
seniors have computers at home
For the
seniors who don’t have a computer at home, the students come with their own
laptop (each student of the school –which is a private school – has his
personal computer)
Once a week
in general for one senior.
Most
seniors have already worked on computers
The
organisation of these courses is composed of :
-
8 young teachers
-
3 team managers
-
1 webmaster who takes care of the site : www.eseniors.educanet.cz
The young
teachers have meetings with the team managers to decide what subjects they have
to teach and about the teaching planning.
Seniors do
not pay : courses are free.
Publicity:
The
students created leaflets and
distributed them and put them in senior clubs
Advantages
for young people :
The
interest for the young teachers is to see how they feel as being themselves
teachers and evaluate it as a future profession.
They learn
a lot about life from old people as they talk they talk also about life
experience
If the
experience successful, in future they
would be possibility to give credits to students
Remarks
:
The pace is
slower when teaching seniors
The most
difficult is to be patient
Conclusions
Seniors are
very kind to young teachers
Seniors are
happy to joint the project
They like
individual courses
Juniors get
closer to seniors
Several
logo proposals were given by young Czech and one logo by
The
criteria for the choice was to have a picture which is stylised ( simple to
understand ), not overloaded because it
might used with different reduction percentages .
Final
decision :
We will have
2 logos : one for the project (german proposition) and one for the SOG (czech
proposition)
The project
logo (german) must be modified as
-
to have some yellow stars ( in yellow)
-
change the brown colour to yellow
-
the name “eseniors” in dark blue
The other
logo is more used for SOG and cybercafé (when they will exist!)
This is the
dedicated subject of the Selb meeting .
And the different contributions from all the
partners will be concatenated into one of the projects OUTPUT RECOMMENDATIONS
document.
The subject
must be divided in hardware and software access problems with in-between, the
problem of Internet access.
1 –
Hardware access
The cost of
hardware has decreased.
Most of our
middle and upper class seniors can afford to buy a computer (generally laptop).
In many
cases, their children buy computers as Christmas presents (for example), which,
by the way, pushes the parents to begin and learn ICT.
But, as an
non-profit organization, we have the possibility to get – nearly for
free - second hand recycled computers.
We are in
contact with intermediate structures who get the computers from big structures
like banks, government or town
structures, electricity company , etc
when they decide to change part
of their computer parks.
And we give
for free and install these
computers either for private people who
do not have the financial possibility to
buy their own computer or in public activity centres where we give our courses,
when they have no or not enough computers or , also, for welfare organisations.
One must
also speak of some new commercial projects of low cost computers like the ASUS
company is going to offer in the next month for 100 euros. But these computers
have a very small screen and have very little evolution possibilities.
Some other
aspects should be mentioned, when speaking about hardware :
-
some people acquire MACINTOSH computers (mostly on recommendation of
their family using these computers when working in graphics businesses):; these
computers are very beautiful, easier to use then normal PC’s (once you have
been a little bit initiated), have no Viruses problems BUT they are more
expensive and it is difficult to find teaching courses as the demand is very
little.
-
A company called ORDISSIMO proposes a simplified computer (based on
LINUX – also no viruses!) for seniors where you have only prefabricated buttons
(one for mail, one to surf, one to write a letter…).
To me,
it is a little bit like a Fisher
Price Toy computer for babies, BUT it can be useful for Alzheimer sick people
as simplifying the access and avoiding problems.
2 –
Internet access
This is, in
some way, a real problem.
In
And this is
the same for all providers (as well ADSL providers like Free, Wanadoo,
NeufTelecom, Alice then Cable access providers like NOOS/ Numericable).
Some people
cannot afford their cost when they have very little pensions.
So one
solution is to go to cyber cafés ( 1 or 2 euros per hour), some
MacDonald’s cafes or , for free, in some public libraries.
Another
opening comes from the fact that the town of
But one
thing to be done would be to talk to
some big Internet access providing company and convince them to make a discount
to seniors who have no financial means.
3 –
Software and learning to use ICT courses
Software
problems can be used by using old versions of Microsoft software (Windows 98 is
completely free, or Windows 2000,…)
And , for
instance, for text processing using Open Office instead of WinWord…
as it has exactly the same features (only sometimes a little bit more
complicated to use as for orthography corrector or foreign languages).
As for
learning how to use these tools, which is one important aspect of the access to
modern technologies, there are 2 possibilities :
-
private lessons :
we provide this service in the frame of a
governmental politics which is called “Personal services” – especially for old
people staying in their homes. The help of the state comes in the form of an
income tax reduction of 50% of the price paid for private lessons (for instance
, if a senior pays 45 euros to our organisation, he will get back 22.50 euros in paying less taxes or, even, if he pays no
taxes he will get the money. – this up to 1000 euros per year. Of course this price is still very high for a
lot of people. So , for people with difficult situations , we provide free
service at home with the help of volunteer persons.
-
group lessons :
we provide lessons in public cultural or social
centres in different places in
4 –
Conclusion
It is an
“every days” work , for our association, to find financial help from
government, region, town and local authorities, private sponsors because the income we get from group courses
does not cover the real cost of the teacher’s salary, even if we have the help
of volunteers – because the cost of having one teacher fro only 4 students is
very high.
Our second
“job” would be to find volunteers.
In
Computer
access is given by Regional Public Library in
The
Business and European Information Centre
(part of the Library) which provide help for Seniors to access the
database of the library and to get general information about regulations useful
for every day’s life .
Must also
be mentioned the German-Polish association, who have their own computers and
cooperate with the library.
See PowerPoint
presentations of
- the Regional
Public Library in Krakow
-
the Business and European Information Centre
Access to
hardware :
- 12 computers in computer reading room
- 5 computers in Regional reading room
Trainings
(with low cost participation) have been organized for readers of the library to
learn how to use their free access to computers and access the library’s catalogue and lending facility
database, with personal username access.
Most
teachers are young : 25 years old
Conclusion
:
In
The cost of
buying hardware , even for organisations,
is still a problem.
The
situation in
National
governement : part compulsary
Half
cummunity can decide to use th emoney they get from governement for what they
want
Microsoft
is omnipresent in
The local
government sent 15 computers
Internet
connection costs 40 euros per month but
, if you add telephone, it is a total of
70 euros without TV
General
situation
Schools
and public libraries are very well equipped in hardware and software, but many
senior citizens are not familiar with the use of them. In the libraries
internet can be used without cost. At home internet connection is cheap: 10 -
> euros/month
Similarly
there are more cellular telephones than inhabitants, but older generation
cannot use them or uses only very elementary functions. The trend by the
authorities is to persuade people to use cellular telephones as repairing phone
lines is expensive in a densely populated country.
Average
bit rate (2 megabyte..etc) is not the fastest in
But you
can find up to 24 megabyte/sec.
Foibe
Access
to hardware, software and internet
Foibe has
16 computers which were bought second hand. They are equipped with basic
Microsoft software (Word, Excel, Power Point). All of them have internet
connection. They are placed in the library and can easily be used by as
well those living in Foibe as visitors to the day center.
Challenges
As Foibe
is an independent foundation it cannot get state or municipality subsidies. To
keep the fees low is only possible with voluntary teaching staff.
The day
center is not situated in any of the city centers which influences the number
of participants. Most of the residents of the center are old and have health
problems which hinders them to participate.
Many
retired people either have low income or are not used to pay for participation.
This means that only a nominal fee can be collected.
New ways
to inform seniors of the course pool must be found as we cannot afford
advertising in newspapers. Brochures in libraries are used, but reaching many
more seniors is a demanding task.
Present
situation
We have
two volunteers and students from near-by technical university for nursing have
helped in various ways. New volunteers would be useful.
Activities
Basic
courses in ICT are a regular part of supply.
Two
courses in using cellular phones were given last December.
31.1.
Course in digital banking
7.2.
Use our cellular phone (elementary course)
14.2. Do
not be afraid of computer. Course for those who have never used it.
27.3. Use
your cellular phone (for those who can use basic functions)
10.4.
English with computer
In
addition we have plans to open a net coffee like Café Anschluss.
Students
from polytechnics have open a Wellness-TV which can be an embryo for
interactive home TVs
Foibe has
internal TV, which gives the residents a possibility to get internal
information.
Answers
to the 7 questions
The vhs Selb offers different
courses particularly with regard to elder people since 1999. The subjects are
new technologies, health care also as given talks on different themes.
3 computer reading rooms:
Every room with printer,
scanner, beamer
1 Internet-Café with 3
computers, Widows 2000, Office 2000, Internet, printer, scanner
(free using)
Computer reading rooms can
be used during courses. Internet – Café is free to use during the opening time
and also if there is an agreement of a date.
Access to internet is free
all the time, but no WIFI (the walls in our old house are too thick)
There is no such activity
carried out actually.
The participants of “Café Anschluss” aids one another. We plan to qualify young
people/students of high school, to teach elder people and to give home computer
assistance
Inhabitants absolute: 16.700 100,0 %
age 65+ 4.390 26,3 %
less than 18: 2.520
15,1 %
The population of Selb grows old. Every year the part of 65+ aged people
is more. A lot of elderly people live alone, reasonable because the younger
people (sons and daughters) couldn’t
find a job here and must leave the region. Without using new technologies there
is no possibility to get in contact with the family.
Remarks
The problem
in making seniors interested in using the internet.
They are
afraid of getting Viruses on their computers
There is no
financial problem to acquire hardware.
Seniors are
afraid of security problems (for
instance in e-banking or buing on the
Internet)
so they
prefer using computers at school
One of the
courses is using internet to buy from ebay.
Also the
adsl connection does not exist in all places in the area.
The cost of
adsl is 100 euros/month
German
seniors don’t use mobile phones because numbers are to little to see
and they
cannot remember or see the long telephone numbers
and they do
not know how to save numbers
Offered
courses are :
- course is for beginners (coming)
they will
step by step explain word by word
5
afternoons once a week
Price : 30
euros (6 euros per afternoon)
At the end
, people will be able to go to normal course for computers
- special
courses for digital camera, photo
- training
in skype (in future)
Senior
courses are in the afternoon, as they do not want to go out in the dark, and slowlier than normal courses
At the
moment there are no young teachers
But they
will try and to offer didactic course
how to train old people with outside help (
Conclusion
:
There are
no home courses and no e-learning
In
general people not only to learn about
ICT but also to meet and see other
people
Each
partner has to prepare a presentation about every interesting activity in his
institution : ICT or other activities
( for
instance foreign language training) with the aim to exchange experiences
This part was
discussed on Friday.
This
information is contained in the description of the tasks in the first part of
the document.
Market of
courses for seniors is growing
There will
be a link between Czech and German partners to broaden the offer of courses for
broader education
Lenka wants
to make more courses for seniors
The French
partner would also like to set up something similar.
The idea
was given to publicise about courses by putting
flyers at doctors and in churches